‘The Archbishop of Canterbury today urged Christians around the world to pray for the terrorists who brutally killed at least 67 in Nairobi.’
Christians once had a clear vision of what the enemy looks like. And how to deal with it.
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This woman “gets it”, even if the bloody Archbishop doesn’t.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/kenya/10333477/After-Kenya-no-more-turning-the-other-cheek-to-those-who-hate-us.html
Damn good writing at the link. The Archbishop isn’t close to anything…God, humanity, reality etc… A disgusting Chamberlainesque oxygen thief!
The primary duty of Christians is to fight evil because it comes directly from the Gates of Hell.
The popes who launched the Crusades after centuries of conquest, murder, looting, slavery and rape at the bloody hands of Muslims were spot on and it’s a damn shame today we don’t have Pope with the balls to launch the Final Crusade against Islam.
This here planet ain’t big enough for Christianity and Islam.
“Hey, Hey
Ho, Ho
Islam simply has to go!”
England is gone. No matter what the people want, the elites will do the opposite. It won’t change until blood runs in the streets and not before.
I do not see any Christian “leaders” from any denomination w/ a set–
Here in the U S – they are ‘afraid ‘ of losing their 501 C3 –(LBJ ‘s 1954 law to shut his critics up!)–
Our Christian “leaders” did not fight it because they did no know the HIStorical path to the Declaration or the Constitution!
Carol-CS
BTW- I have been saying -“No more turning the other cheek !” for years–
C-CS
A soft-handed non-entity living in his own little world. No wonder his congregation sizes are in terminal safe-down-a-lift-shaft decline.
The first rule of commercial marketing: customer Relevance. So….epic fail arch-bish… But I’m sure you made yourself feel important, which is all that counts, right?
And of course “anglican” congregations will not raise a wrinkly shaking finger in protest at the dude…let alone two.
Sorry flash, the fail is yours.
A soft-handed non-entity living in his own little world. No wonder his congregation sizes are in terminal safe-down-a-lift-shaft decline.
Matthew 7:13-14
The Narrow and Wide Gates
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
The Body of Christ is suppposed to be outnumbered.
The first rule of commercial marketing: customer Relevance. So….epic fail arch-bish… But I’m sure you made yourself feel important, which is all that counts, right?
Matthew 10:21-23
…21″Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. 22“You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved. 23”But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes.…
The Body of Christ is supposed to be at odds with the world.
And of course “anglican” congregations will not raise a wrinkly shaking finger in protest at the dude…let alone two.
the ‘dude’ said:
‘As Christians one of the things is that we pray for justice and particularly the issues around the anger that comes when this kind of thing happens, but we are also called as Jesus did on the Cross to pray for those who are doing us harm.’
and Jesus said:
Matthew 5:43-48
Love for Enemies
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
looks consistent to me.
Quote the bible all you like, Ciaron, the fact remains that appeasement and surrender are the same thing whether they’re in accordance with the Christian bible or not.
And those quotes were of no use to those who died in Kenya, no use to the Christians murdered in Pakistan and Egypt and utterly useless in the face of the wave of murders and burning of churches by muslims across the world.
While many Christians mouth platitudes, brave men take the fight to the enemy.
And it’s those men who will keep you safe, not sanctimonious pricks who wash their hands of the necessity to confront and defeat evil.
And those quotes were of no use to those who died in Kenya, no use to the Christians murdered in Pakistan and Egypt and utterly useless in the face of the wave of murders and burning of churches by muslims across the world.
I think you are dead wrong there KG. Those believers who were martyred are now with God enjoying His rest – the absolute best thing that can happen to someone! Consider our point of view; this short life is full of pain, suffering and injustice. The next life will be eternal, and perfect without suffering, so from that perspective, the sufferings of this life are infinitesimal. Also, we are called to be IN the world, not OF the world which means we are not to be fixated on worldly things, but heavenly things. We also hold that our lives and bodies do not belong to us, but to God. He sustains them and reclaims them as and how he sees fit – they belong to Him.
please don’t take this as me trying to ram my beliefs down anyones throat, I am simply trying to explain our perspective as I understand it.
And I’d note that there are a lot of Christians who have been very pleased to welcome the intervention of those who don’t subscribe to their pacifist inclinations when TSHTF.
Try preaching when an islamist is holding a blade to your child’s throat. Good luck with that.
Let’s try a hypothetical. Islamists have taken over your child’s school, Beslan-style.
It’s a well planned operation and the police and army are blocked some miles away. Also Beslan-style, children are being raped and murdered.
Would you pick up a rifle and start killing in order to try and save your child’s life? Yes or no.
If yes, then the verses you quote are meaningless when the chips are down.
If no……I don’t want to think about what it means to be a father who will not die if necessary to protect his children.
Good question.
I think the answer from the Christian perspective would be to trust God, as everything happens according to his will. I also think it would be very hard given my sinfull nature to trust God at that time, and I would be looking to get in there and do something. I will pass on that question to someone I know who is better equipped to answer than I am.
Maybe you’re confused, when KG says – pick up a rifle and start killing – he doesn’t mean start shooting random people, or in this instance run away from the mall and shoot people along the way.
A perfect example is that SAS soldier who ran into the mall repeatedly to save people, he wasn’t sitting outside praying and he didn’t go in there waving flowers, he carried a gun and had every intention of killing any terrorist scumbag who got in his way. He probably did ask the Christian God to help him, to clear a path for him, to steady his aim if need be, to jam the weapons of the terrorists. I know i would.
And I’m pretty sure you’ll find many references in the bible to defending the weak, the innocent and the meek. And i’m 100% sure the Christian God would never punish you for saving children. If anything he’d take a very dim view of those who wouldn’t.
I realise you’re not trying to ram your beliefs down anyone’s throat.
An adult can choose martyrdom if he wishes, but I don’t believe any parent has the right to demand that of his or her children.
As adults and parents we have a responsibility to look evil in the eye and confront it. Simply rolling over and offering our bellies to the enemy is cowardice. No less.
Almost everything you enjoy in your society was either built or preserved by those willing to fight for it.
It’s a good question because it goes to the core of what it means to be a civilized human and no amount of rhetoric will disguise the truth of the responses.
“Would you pick up a rifle and start killing in order to try and save your child’s life? Yes or no.”
I’m not interested in the answer of somebody who is “better equipped”, I’m interested in your answer.
And you have it.
I do. Your answer is to pass the question on to somebody else in order to avoid it.
No. I said what I would do:
I also think it would be very hard given my sinfull nature to trust God at that time, and I would be looking to get in there and do something.
I have a sinful nature which prompts me to rebel against the will of God. I am unsure, given your scenario, if engaging in combat is acting by God’s will or mine. passing the question on to somone better equipped would clarify the situation somewhat.
The question is crystal-clear–would you kill in order to save your children.
“Get in there and do something” is not an answer. You might intend to get in there and make them sandwiches and a nice cup of tea, for all I know.
Would you kill? was the question.
That’s always the way with these soft-handed “christians”, KG.
Terrorism is always conveniently externalized from self to ‘someone else’ and the root question elevated into ethereal nothingness thanks to the application of abstract reductionism via artfully selective biblical quotation.
In
Their
Own
Little
World…..
I think the point is being missed really as this needs to be seen from a Christian perspective. I pray for lots of stuff looking for a change but remain prepared to defend my patch if necessary. I’d much rather a Muslim adandon his faith and see how stupid it is than have to get pyhsical.
“I think the point is being missed really as this needs to be seen from a Christian perspective.”
No, it doesn’t. It needs to be seen from the perspective of a war being waged against the West and Christianity.
“I’d much rather a Muslim adandon his faith and see how stupid it is than have to get pyhsical.”
Wouldn’t we all. But we’re grappling with reality here, not wishful thinking.
If a muslim demanded you abandon your faith, would you? Of course not, no more than he will.
And the Christian perspective–at least from the Anglican, CofE and Catholic viewpoint–seems to be one of abject surrender.
Yes, we have surrendered. just not to who you think we have.
Surrendered responsibility for protecting your loved ones and handed it over to hope and helplessness and God.
And some Christians I have known have the damn nerve to look down on those who kill to keep them safe……
Yes, it does.
Even the *Buddhists* have the courage and the balls to fight back, and I say “good on them!”
Bottom line – it will NOT be Christianity that saves what is left of the West. It will be assault-rifles.
PRAISE THE LORD!
…now would you please pass the ammunition
Also, a thought – we should be kind and just to all human beings, as the Lord Jesus teaches us; however, Muslims, Communists, Fascists and psychopaths in general ARE NOT HUMAN BEINGS
…and the Lord God gives Man the command of animals, and dangerous animals should be killed on sight.
“The Body of Christ is supposed to be at odds with the world.”
Yes that is exactly right,however what we are seeing are the mainstream denominations increasingly agreeing with the world and it’s values.Case in point,the current Pope,last week he stated that the church shouldn’t make such a big deal over homosexuality and abortion.In other words the church will gain more members if it becomes more like the world.
As to Christians and self-defense,preservation and defense of life isn’t debateable-
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/338845/biblical-and-natural-right-self-defense-david-french
Hi Darin,
What the Pope said on homosexuality and abortion was misinterpreted and blown out of proportion.
If want proof, then these two recent news items should do it:
Pope Francis excommunicates Australian priest who supported gay marriage and women priests
Pope Francis condemns abortion day after controversial interview
Never trust anything the liberal media says about any of the Popes. It’s so often wrong, or spun in a particular direction.
I’m still not convinced,blowback driven rollback on Abortion and excommunicating a Priest who resigned his collar in 2011 doesn’t constitute concrete proof.I’ll give him the benifit of a doubt,but he’s still on probation.
Fair enough, Darin.
I quite like the idea of the Pope on probation.
Daniel Greenfield-
http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2013/09/the-central-planning-solution-to-evil.html
Very good article there Darin.
From that article:
‘We are not a violent society. We are a society sheltered from violence. No one in Rwanda spends time wondering what kind of man would murder people. They probably live next door to him. If your neighborhood is diverse enough, you might be unfortunate enough to live next door to war criminals all the way from Eastern Europe to Africa.
Guns are how we misspell evil. Guns are how we avoid talking about the ugly realities of human nature while building sandcastles on the shores of utopia.
It’s not about the fear of what one motivated maniac can do in a crowded place, but about the precariousness of liberal social control that the killing sprees imply.
The gun issue is about solving individual evil through central planning in a shelter big enough for everyone. A Gun Free Zone where everyone is a target and tries to live under the illusion that they aren’t. A society where everyone is drawing peace signs on colored notepaper while waiting under their desks for the bomb to fall….’
nailed it!
and:
‘People do kill people and the only way to stop that is by killing them first. To a utopian this is a moral paradox that invalidates everything that came before it, but to everyone else, it’s just life in a world where evil is a reality, not just a word.
…..
Helpless people must find something to think about while waiting for their kings and princes to do something about the killing. Instead of doing something about it themselves, they blame the freedom that left the killer free to kill, instead of the lack of freedom that prevented them from being able to stop him….’
‘People do kill people and the only way to stop that is by killing them first. To a utopian this is a moral paradox that invalidates everything that came before it, but to everyone else, it’s just life in a world where evil is a reality, not just a word.
…..
Helpless people must find something to think about while waiting for their kings and princes to do something about the killing. Instead of doing something about it themselves, they blame the freedom that left the killer free to kill, instead of the lack of freedom that prevented them from being able to stop him….’
KG,
If it were me and Islamic terrorists had my child captive, I would prepare spiritually, as all the Catholic warriors have done through out history by going to Confession and Mass. I would pray for the souls of the terrorists, and then I would go in there and kill them (if I could). We can do both, I think. We can pray for our enemies and kill them.
Yes indeed, Lucia Maria.
We can do both.
Yes, Lucia Maria, you are right. From Charles Martel at Tours to Jan Sobieski at Vienna it has always been Catholic armies that have saved Europe’s collective bacon.
As for the Archbish, all I can say is remember what the peasants did to your predecessor Sudbury in 1381.
As an atheist I expect all weirdos who subscribe to superstitious shit to simply leave me alone. I don’t need to like them and they sure as hell aren’t expected to like me.
Not all religious people are “weirdos who subscribe to superstitious shit” Cad.
The ones I know are principled, decent people who show a damn sight more tolerance than a lot of atheists.
Especially now, when many atheists are anti-religious zealots who demonstrate little tolerance and who are happy to do (or are unwittingly doing) the left’s dirty work for them.
There’s exceptions to every rule. I refuse to allow myself to draw my morality and sense of decency from the imagined dictates of an invisible coach/umpire. Surely it is tenable to propose that were there no religion then there’d be no (or at least less) bigotry and aggression? If atheism was the subject of terror strikes from theists I, for one, would bear arms to defend my stance and moral code.
Further, what do you refer to when you say that atheists do the left’s dirty work? Just curious.
What I mean is that religious convictions and the traditional family structure stand in the way of totalitarianism.
Which is why the left wants to destroy both.
Militant atheists, with their attacks on religion and those principles which are an inheritance of our judeo-christian past are clearly doing the same job.
“Surely it is tenable to propose that were there no religion then there’d be no (or at least less) bigotry and aggression?”
Perhaps–but perhaps not. Most religions preach some kind of peaceful tolerance of others and it’d be reasonable to argue that by so doing they reduce aggressive impulses, non?
Fair thinking.
Going back to the top of this post…I reiterate that the Archbishop isn’t close to anything. Hence, is it not fair to ponder the large gaps between religious faith and religious institutions? In the Islamic world these schisms may be difficult to detect while in Christianity the separation is profoundly obvious.
“..is it not fair to ponder the large gaps between religious faith and religious institutions?”
It certainly is.
@Cadwallader, I was raised an atheist and my answer would be corrupting white people through moral relitavism peppered with un-principled exceptions.
[That pretty much sums up all the sub-branches of the assault on my culture]
For this to be correct you first have to subscribe to the belief that personal morality and standards need to be derived from an external source ie from a religious faith. This does not pre-suppose any moral relativism.
I guess I (at least sort of) do. For example, among black africans rape is culturally in- amongst the male half: http://www.amren.com/news/2013/09/shocking-attitudes-to-rape-in-south-africa/
And then there is the common-knowledge slavery/cannibalism that existed before they fixed my former country.
O.k, no more guessing. It had to come from somewhere. And the country I grew up in was based on Christianity. (Also I’ve gone from agnostic to leaning more towards Christ being the truth: the horrible torture-deaths of those who witnessed the resurrection not recanting to the Romans being the main one).
Thanks. I suspect this is a debate which could be eternal.
I have no problem with what the British Victorians used to call “muscular christianity”…check out some of the heroes of the Indian Mutiny for instance…they upheld its values in full measure. (“Gravedigger” Sir Henry Havelock and Sir John Nicholson come quickly to mind.)
The anglican christians I despise…repeat, despise…are the silver-tongued academic theological worms and soft-handed, plush-arsed drones who populate the ranks of its vicars; today and during the decades since WW1.
Aye, me too Flashy.
I seem to recall a lot of righteous smiting and striking down in the big book…
I think we should pray for these terrorists to turn from their evil ways. And if they don’t pray that our blades, bullets and bombs find them quickly and cleanly.
I think too many Christians confuse this will-of-God thing, while Jesus did say to turn the other cheek and to pray for your enemies and he did that too while he was on the cross. He prayed for his tormentors while he was on the cross slowly and painfully dying. It wasn’t someone else broken and battered on the cross while he was watching.
We mustn’t weasel in the face of evil, if a woman or child is getting raped and beaten to death in front of you, that’s not the will of God and now you should sit down and start praying. He gave us free will so that we can muster the courage to fight evil.
The way things are going, instead of praying for terrorists i suggest we all pray that if they come to a mall near us that we have the courage to stand and fight, that we can save innocents, that we run to the mall instead of away and when they ask us what is the name of mohammed’s mother that we tell them we will not submit.
There was a small boy in that mall, 4 years old if i remember correctly, who stood up to one of the terrorists and told him he is evil. If he can do it….