Police ambush Bundy and Militia members traveling to a meeting,shots fired,one militiaman dead,others wounded.Hospital and several local roads on lockdown.
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Breaking: Malheur – Open Thread
https://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2016/01/26/breaking-malheur-open-thread/
There’s obviously still a lot of confusion, but this may be the best source for info right now.
I’m not the praying type, but I’m praying for those men.
Me too.
But although I believe their cause is just, I also believe they’re choosing the wrong hill to die on, because to most of the public – even those who have been following this through the media – the issues are too remote and too complex.
Yes, the Government is acting unlawfully, since they have no Constitutional right to seize vast swathes of land. But this is the wrong place and the wrong time to make a stand.
my 2c worth.
Their lives, their choice to spill their blood as and where they will.
As was said elsewhere. “To us this is just an issue. To these people this is their whole lives.”
Yes, it is. No argument there.
“Their lives, their choice to spill their blood as and where they will.”
Yup,and I agree it was poorly planned.I think the smart thing to do now would be to drop back and punt.Take time,take names,figure out exactly who did what and settle the score later,quietly.
Militia are claiming LaVoy Finicum was shot three times while on the ground with his hands raised.
If this is so there’s a high chance this good escalate into something really big.
*could escalate. Freudian slip perhaps. As horrible as this is I think we all know in our hearts it’s inevitable.
Yeah, there’s nothing good about this.
Just watched a video that gives a different version of events.
https://www.facebook.com/PaulCHardy/posts/10205932623137529
Seems like a genuine attempt to get some truth out there.
Redbaiter, I just tried your link and a Facebook popup claims the post is “not available now”. I guess Facebook isn’t the preferred venue to use if you have truth to show.
A little here:
https://twitter.com/paulchardy
Some interesting times, eh? There are a few who strongly believe the first shot of what will become America’s second civil war has been fired. And perhaps the time for “put up or shut up” is at hand. As for me… I have my dancing shoes within a short arms reach.
Like others here in the Wabbit Patch, I view Mr. Bundy’s cause as “just”. It’s “just” his planning and plan execution were rather ill conceived. For example; wouldn’t it have been more prudent to conduct the operation within his own local area where he would, one would think, have a stronger local support base? It does appear that his out of town “pop op” didn’t exactly capture the sympathies, or eager support, from the Harney County crowd. And of course, there was no unbiased media coverage to be had, that might enlist some local support.
Of course I have no clue as to Mr. Bundy’s (et al) exit strategies, but considering the winning outcome of the original Bundy v. federal bully boys showdown, in 2014, even the extreme low IQ crowd (like me) could quickly deduce that the feds would not be going home without at least one head (or fragments thereof) to mount on their trophy wall, after the conclusion of this little soiree.
Now you can call me simple minded here but, in my mind’s eye, if one lays siege to a location and claims it to be their “last stand”, isn’t it only logical for that one (and again, et al) to stay in place until the end play? Did he / they honestly believe they could waltz on and off of that property with total impunity? Seems to me that the definition of “last stand” is; you either walk away as a winner or, you take the walk of shame… in a body bag. Calling a time out to take a road trip to an “impromptu speaking engagement” in another town is just an outright act of brain dead!!! It is the equivalent of begging for the infamous “IT” to happen. Like dropping your shorts and taunting the Angel of Death with a shot of the full moon.
But despite what appears to be some serious mental shortcomings on the part of Mr. Bundy, (and yet again, et al) that does not extend carte blanche to a gang of federal fuck-knuckles to summarily execute citizens whose only crime appears to be disagreeing with the ruling class. (or lack of class as it were)
If the dead man were of a particular ethnicity, you can bet your ass, and the farm, there would be some very serious “civil disobedience” in the immediate offing. Suffice it to say under the current circumstances, you can further bet your wife’s posterior, there will be no “impunity crossover” should rightly outraged Americans go out looking for a few pounds of payback flesh.
Oh yeah, there is no doubt about it. These are some very interesting times. I am semi cautiously waiting to see what happens next.
Lord God in Heaven, please bless us and these United States.
Great comment, Mike and one I agree 100% with, especially the “road trip” business. An open invitation to divide and be ambushed.
The BLM agents that burn homesteads down,kill cattle and burn winter forage will now have targets on their backs and I suspect that some will have accidents and disappear.
I have some respect for local law enforcement,but the feds get none from me.They have proven themselves time and again to be trigger happy lying vermin to the point it must be in the job description.Worthless asshole is a marketable skill at the federal level.
Eye witness account of arrest and Finicum shooting here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wA18O_6dgw&feature=youtu.be
I’m with everybody else,let’s see the video.If the Feds were justified in killing him,then they should have no problem releasing the video.If no video is produced,then we know it was a execution.
Finicum’s family should already be pursuing a wrongful death lawsuit.
@mIKEh – If the dead man were of a particular ethnicity, you can bet your ass, and the farm, there would be some very serious “civil disobedience” in the immediate offing.
perhaps true, but if the occupiers had been of that particular ethnicity, or if the occupiers had been Muslims would the occupation have lasted as long?
Y’allkaieda were not wanted by the locals, they were not wanted by those they claimed to have “come to defend”, they simply alienated themselves from anyone who may have been supportive.
“perhaps true, but if the occupiers had been of that particular ethnicity, or if the occupiers had been Muslims would the occupation have lasted as long?”
Yes,many of the occupy protests lasted months with all sorts of criminal vermin camped out on public property.Then we had Furgeson and Baltimore where feral pavement apes were allowed to run amok and destroy millions of dollars of property both public and private,So that point of yours is dead wrong.
Second,it was the media constantly pushing the same false narrative that soured the well in Oregon.The protest started weeks before,peacefully,and was in regard to the feds re-arresting the rancher and his son,who were tried and convicted and served time already for what was basically a frame up by the BLM.The media ran with the narrative that this was over unpaid grazing fees which it was not.The seizure of the parks building(which was empty and unlocked,no one broke into anything) was a poorly planned attempt to gain media attention that backfired.
The BLM has been caught on video burning cattle alive,burning ranches to the ground and burning off winter forage ON PRIVATE PROPERTY in an attempt to starve the ranchers out.The Hammonds themselves had barns and livestock destroyed by fires that were set by the BLM.These are the terrorist thugs,not the ranchers.
I hope,I truly hope the government piles on top of you someday,maybe then you will get your head out your ass and wake up to what is going on,but I doubt it.You’re just another fuckwit with a keyboard and a special kind of stupid.
“You’re just another fuckwit with a keyboard and a special kind of stupid.”
Condolences to the bereaved, especially if he died with his hands up (or showing some other sign of surrender) as has been reported.
However, history repeats:
The leader of the 1381 peasants revolt was killed by King’s men during a frank exchange of views.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wat_Tyler
http://historyguide.org/ancient/wat_tyler.html
Some in the US have been following the well established UK practice more than US history would wish them to admit to. (1773 and all that.)
Gavin,
I firmly believe if the occupiers had been Black or Muslim, their grievances would have been addressed within the first few days. However, they most likely would have remained in order to “milk” the situation, and media, for no other reason than to “flaunt and taunt”.
“Y’allkaieda”??? Cute; perhaps bordering on juvenile, but not quite accurate. The occupiers didn’t terrorize anyone. They didn’t make threats to bomb anyone or anyplace. They didn’t threaten or attempt to hack anyone’s head off their shoulders. They didn’t rape, rob. rip off, set ablaze or otherwise vandalize multiple blocks of private or public property.
Honestly, I suspect that reports of the occupiers molesting artifacts inside that building are pure hokum. I believe it was a pitiful attempt, by the media, to vilify these folks, because the media needed more to sensationalize the story above and beyond the fact the occupiers were armed.
In my original comment, I thought I had made clear my take on this. I fully and wholeheartedly agree with the occupiers’ cause. However, their planning and execution sucked the big green salami. They acted stupidly. BUT… the last time I checked, stupid does not negate due process. It does not justify murder and attempted murder on the part of federal enforcers. If the enforcers and the media had walked away after day one, the occupiers would have lost motivation, packed up and gone home by the end of the week.
Personally, I am fucking-A sorry the various big, tough, radical Rick militia members, and the Oathkeepers, were so quick to distance themselves from the occupiers. They were falling all over themselves to tell anyone who would listen that they didn’t have a dog in this fight. Well, I call BULLSHIT!!! What kind of fight is more deserving of having a dog in than one against a corrupt government?
What you say makes perfect sense, Mike but it’s wasted on troll Gavin.
Which is why he won’t be back.
“Personally, I am fucking-A sorry the various big, tough, radical Rick militia members, and the Oathkeepers, were so quick to distance themselves from the occupiers. They were falling all over themselves to tell anyone who would listen that they didn’t have a dog in this fight. Well, I call BULLSHIT!!! What kind of fight is more deserving of having a dog in than one against a corrupt government?”
Mike,I think you’re spot on.The threepers and the Oth keepers are no better than the feds in this.The feds set the local LEO for the fall guys incase the ambush went sideways and turned into a bloodbath.The militia groups did the same IMO when they left the ranchers swinging.
In that case… Bye Bye, Gavin!!!
Newly released FBI video shows LaVoy had his hands up when shot.
I’ve got it on my site, and have cut stills and zoomed in on original helicopter shots.
Check it out. Let me know what you think.
http://truebluenz.com/2016/01/29/video-footage-lavoy-finicum-shooting-oregon-militia/
Thanks for that,looks like murder to me.Just how does one “charge” at officers in knee deep snow???
I suspect I’m going to be a lone voice, but here goes..
It looked very much to me like he was reaching inside his jacket with his right hand. In the same circumstances I’d have shot him, albeit not with a lethal round.
And after watching the video earlier today – repeatedly – I think the stills are misleading, Redbaiter.
I have to disagree,at :13 in he’s shot by the cop behind the vehicle before his arms go down.A muzzle flash can be seen,he’s trying to turn around in deep snow as his arms go down he’s shot by that same cop again and a third time by the cop near the tree line.Also the testimony from the girl that was in the truck said the only reason they ran from the previous road block was because the cops opened up on them when the front passenger tried to surrender at the first stop.
Notice also they didn’t release dash cam video,or body cam video,but grainy out of focus video from a chopper(which looks more like drone footage at extreme zoom). I think it was just typical trigger happy commando wannabes in action,but maybe you’re seeing something I’m not.
Regardless,it was a needless death and was brought on by heavy handed tactics.The only thing the LEO’s action will do is put more targets on more cops backs and swell the ranks of the militias.
I’ll take (yet another) look Darin.
Make no mistake, I believe they’re a bunch of trigger-happy a-holes and wouldn’t be sorry to see any or all of them shot.
But it definitely looked to me like he was reaching inside his jacket before he was shot.
“Regardless,it was a needless death and was brought on by heavy handed tactics.”
Yep. Echoes of Waco and Ruby Ridge.
They’re saying he was a left hander.
I thought it looked like they shot him before that point but hard to tell.
As Darin says, no dashcam or bodycam video. Why?
Yeah, I caught that one too; was hoping I wasn’t imagining it! That said…
“In the same circumstances I’d have shot him, albeit not with a lethal round”
You may well have, but it looks to me as though the feds they had at that roadblock were the ones who got a “C” grade on the “hitting the side of a barn from5 feet” exam.
Like most of ’em. They can be very good at shooting at long range a mother standing in a doorway holding a baby, though. (Ruby Ridge)
They called in specialists for that one. That wasn’t some yahoo with a Glock.
“Notice also they didn’t release dash cam video,or body cam video,but grainy out of focus video from a chopper..”
The dashcam videos must surely exist?
They probably do,but they will never see the light of day unless there is a court order against the local LEO who did the shooting.
One thing is abundantly clear to me. The second Mr. Finicum exited the vehicle, his hands were up in a show of surrender. IF he had ANY aggressive intentions whatsoever, why bother to have his empty hands above his head?
If I had a younger brother, he would look like LaVoy
It’s not uncommon, Mike. To buy time, to move into a more advantageous position.
I’m not suggesting that was the case here, but it does happen.
KG,
Someone once said “beauty is in the eye of the beholder”. (I am pretty sure Bill Clinton is a living testament to that, considering some of the “beauties” he’s been with) I suppose the implication of that statement is; one man’s beauty is another man’s view without the benefit of beer goggles, OR MORE LIKELY, two or more people can see the exact same thing but interpret that thing differently.
If I take a close look at myself, I see a guy who has lost all trust in the government and, therefore, I probably tend to be just a wee tad hyper-critical of its motives and actions. In the case of the FBI video, I can come up with several (to me) logical reasons why Mr. Finicum’s arms went down. But, as someone else once said, “a picture is worth a thousand words.” Yeah well, a high def video with sound beats the hell out of any pictures.
Still though, what remains to be seen or explained; an autopsy report, photos of all sides of the truck and (what seems to have been forgotten) how was Ryan Bundy wounded? Perhaps time will or will not tell?
Mike
Yep. I’m sure we’re all waiting for more of this story to come out, Mike.
I’m reflexively anti government agents running around waving guns,. I don’t trust them, their supervisors, the heads of the various agencies and the government they serve.
But we’re not well served by people crying “wolf” on anything but damn good evidence. In the long run that screws our credibility too.
Crying wolf doesn’t seem to have affected the other side (Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, Freddie Gray, etc. etc.) – not that they had any credibility to begin with!