On secession:
Fox News – ‘Spurred by disaffection with urban culture, federal control and the increased state regulation pressed by the Sacramento government seated to the south, a growing number of northern Californians are pushing for secession from their state. ….”We are staking our futures on our ability to live and thrive in this area,” Kayla Nicole Brown, a 23-year-old from Redding who is now a leader in Shasta County’s secession movement, told The Times. “And if we can’t, we have to leave.” ….The Times reports majority votes in both the state Legislature and the U.S. Congress are required for secession to actually occur…’
This post is more of a question to our American readers, what is this secession business all about? I’ve heard of it on and off in the past but I don’t understand it very well and it doesn’t seem to be gaining much traction.
What do they mean when they talk about secession from the state, does it mean they become stateless, cut off from state funding, state laws, state support? If there’s a natural disaster they’re on their own, rains don’t come and the water dries up, foreign invasion, well good luck with that? Is that what it means?
More importantly, is this something that individual states can do, break away from the Union become an independent country when they tire of being pushed around by elites far away.
The way I see it, true Conservatives in America face a bleak future under the current arrangements. The treatment they seem to get is somewhere between irritable lip service and a more direct take-your-beliefs-and-eff-off-racist-bigot!
And given that both parties seem to be stuck in varying degrees of leftism, Conservatives are getting slowly and surely squeezed out. As each year goes by our beliefs and values are being shoved aside in favour of others.
I suppose the question or the wish is, is there a different way? Instead of being constantly at each others throats, instead of pushing and shoving your beliefs down the throats of your opponents, can the opposing parties break free of each other to pursue their dreams and aspirations their own way.
If the progressives want to spread the wealth, leave the borders wide open, provide free this and that, marry this person and that person, pay for that one’s sex life etc, well go on and do it yourself, by yourselves. Let the rest of us do it the old fashioned way, free of interfering, controlling, thieving by taxation and having to fall in line with those who have nothing but contempt for us.
I’m hoping for a more peaceful and civilized way forward, otherwise we have two alternatives, neither of which are very palatable. One way which is quite likely is that Conservatives simply fold, give up everything we hold dear and watch as the nation turns to crap. The other way which seems just as likely is that eventually someone will get sick and tired of being pushed around and bite back.
I am reminded of the plight of Jews in Muslim lands who had to pay the jizya poll tax, they had to turn up in the public square, pay the tax money to a Muslim and then get slapped for it. Jews put up with it for a long time but even they got tired of being slapped around, even they upped stakes and went their own way eventually.
We don’t have to turn up in the public square and get slapped for it these days, we don’t get convicted and executed on trumped up charges and the bill for the charade sent to our families either, it’s nothing like that however we are getting told quite often that our beliefs and values are not welcome yet we have to hand over more and more of what we earn to those who deem themselves our betters.
Eventually it’ll start to grate and there are far too many guns and free men in America for that to go on for very long without blood being spilt. So is there a third, better way.
Your thoughts and insight would be most welcome.
Matthew,
Many years ago this issue was a serious concept but it also included some southern Oregon counties and together they proposed to form the state of Jefferson (should be on the net somewhere). What happens is similar to when the South seceded from the Union but you need someone more versed in Constitutional Law and history to explin it properly. Try this: http://www.jeffersonstate.com/
P.S. I was born in Josephine County and raised in Jackson County, both in the Southern Oregon area included in the proposal.
Thanks Michael, a most interesting read. Good to know that others have thought of it and attempted it.
It’s an interesting question. Perhaps the only way to avert a bloody uprising.
But I can’t see Washington giving up a scintilla of power and control. Not ever.
Besides, they probably see an uprising as an opportunity to start openly wearing hohe Wasserstiefel.
That’s what i was thinking as well KG, avoiding bloodshed, but i fear it’s not the way it’ll go. Thanks for posting this again.
Secession is very similar to Declaring Independance.
Declaration of Independance July4,1776-
“When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.”
More here- http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html
Secession is much the same,a group of like minded people get together,form a new political union and tell the old group they are splitting from why and then set about forming their new government etc.
Now if those they are splitting from decide they don’t like that idea,then they usually take up arms to stop them,put bounties on the heads of those who signed the Declaration etc and that is when the blood spills.In this clip from the John Adams series we see a depiction of the vote to make the Declaration.Notice the atmosphere in the room,no cheering,no clapping,not light hearted smiles.No,this was a deadly serious time,the signers necks were on the line,along with their families,neighbors and fortunes.
http://youtu.be/nrvpZxMfKaU
We all know how that turned out,independance comes from the consent of the ruling power,either by their good graces,or by those seeking freedom bludgeoning them over the head till they give it up as in the case of King George.
But that was the first secession,the second didn’t go so well and resulted in as many as 620,000 dead and another 1.2Million wounded of which 30% were amputees.More than all wars Americans have fought in COMBINED.Ya,when we throw down amongst ourselves we do it right.
In the lead up to the Civil War there were the same sort of rumblings we are seeing today both at the polls and in our state houses and congress.In a nutshell if any group wants to break away and suceed from the Union they can.It’s as simple as it was in 1776,simply state your case,declare your intentions and do it,just be prepared for the fight and be willing to see it to it’s end come what may.The last line of the Declaration spells out in far better words what’s is required-
“And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.”
When people ask me if I would support such a move as secession my usual reply is yes,if it comes to that,understanding the full gravity of the situation.The best reminder of why is the state motto of New Hampshire the first state to vote for Independance- “Live Free or Die!”
Thanks for your valuable insight Darin. It would appear there are no easy options, whichever way it goes, the parties involved will most likely choose to spill blood over it. Which perhaps explains the lack of enthusiasm for it in the first place.
Darin, if enough states do vote for secession–and do so simultaneously–wouldn’t Washington’s only recourse be to try and use the military to head it off?
The courts would be useless, Congress surely would have to vote in favour or precipitate a bloodbath.
What I’m trying to say, I guess, is that if enough states voted for secession Washington may regard compliance with their wishes as the least destructive option.
If a majority of the states did,then the government in DC would colapse.The idea has been floated that a return to the Constitution pre 1900 would happen along with clean slate national elections.That and only that would leave the US intact IMO.Anything less than that,bloodshed,destruction and worst of all Balkanisation.
If Balkanisation were to occur,then the rest of the world would go to pieces with us and WWIII would begin.As screwed up and corrupted as we have become we are still blocking the gates of hell shut.
I’ve said it before that Obama and his demonic ilk want more than anything is to get us off the world stage,because then all hell breaks loose.
Balkanization is what i fear, the sort of brother on brother, neighbor against neighbor slaughter that’s happened else where.
Although one good thing is that since you’re a young country, you don’t have the sort of centuries old hatred and viciousness that’s just under the surface in other parts of the world waiting for a spark.
One thing is for sure, obama and his loathsome ilk do want to get you off the stage. I’m not sure if it’s entirely intentional or just a by product of what they do. In the long run it doesn’t really matter i suppose, we’ll all be a lot less free in the end.
It’s a good point KG, i don’t think it’ll even have to be a majority of states, if enough of them decide to leave, it would probably cost far too much to use force to keep them in the union. But like you said earlier, the elites will want to use force initially, the states wanting out will need to show a willingness and ability to cause an incredible amount of pain to get washington to back off.
Before taking to arms maybe the way to go is to take the life-blood a away from Washington – stop paying your federal taxes. If enough people do is simultaneously the IRD could not cope with the number of prosecutions.
On paper that’s a good idea,in practice it would be nearly as difficult as a revolution to pull off.First our income tax is only part of the revenue stream.Payroll taxes get taken out weekly and amount to roughly 8% of a workers income with their employer matching with another 8%.If one is self-employed as I am you pay the full 16%.This is taken out weekly on everyone making $250k and less.Most Americans don’t pay income tax directly,most just get hit with payroll tax.With various deductions they get some of that money back at tax time.
We also pay income taxes indirectly,aka hidden tax.It’s part of every single item we buy and ranges from 18-24% of an items cost.As an example a loaf of bread is taxed from the time the Wheat is a seed all the way through till it hits the store shelves.Every business and corporation it changes hands through pays income tax along the way.
So a tax revolt would mean basically bringing the entire economy to a halt.No one could even go to work,otherwise the revenue stream wouldn’t be cut off.The IRS would also not have to jail anyone,or atleast the bottom half of the nation.Simply put,the government has us enslaved to them already.
The crash of 2007-08 began because most American households are living pay check to pay check even if they don’t admit it.Whether or not they got there from losing class position or simply incuring too much debt doesn’t matter at this point.The crash began because the price of fuel spiked at the same time a new wave of inflation swept over the nation.Suddenly people who did have a couple hundred dollars left at the end of the week didn’t have it.Since the kids have to eat,and the light bill needed paying they let their home loan and car payments float.And because our credit system was already running maxed out the chain reaction pile up began.
Tax refrom has been front and center for as long as I can remember,but little has been done.We need a new system,either a flat tax or even better a national sales tax to replace the current 80,000 page tax code which is a punative nightmare.I have little hope that it will happen though,the Republican revolution started by Reagan and carried through by Bush 43 only saw reductions in some rates many of which were gobbled up by tax increases at the state and city level.Now we are staring down the barrel of Obamacare which more than anything is a massive tax increase,especially on small business which will roll back most of the gains made in reform in the last 30 years.
so I will leave you with a clip from 1978 where Milton Freidman tells us why our tax system will never be reformed.Oh,and happy new year!
Gotta go to work now,millions on welfare are depending on me
It’s the same out here, we’re taxed before we even get the pay check. We’d have to go hungry and die first before the parasites start to feel any pain.
The only way you can hurt the beast is if enough people stop working and get on welfare, we’d have to starve the beast to death, make the wrong people do the right thing.
One of the best threads ever here! We must keep it on a proper discussion lest it devolve into a chaotic mess.
So is the choice secession or reformation of what is in place? I opt for the latter because the Republican party has shown significant signs of change within its ranks. The TEA Party groups. Sarah Palin (HER!), Tom Cruz (HIM!). and others have stood tall in defending the traditional tenets of the Republican Party and Conservatives in general. When you think about it, the TEA Party and conservatives have won several battles in 2013. However, none of this is worth a tinker’ damn if the bulk of the electorate remains ignorant (the goal of government and the MSM).
God preserve the Republic!!
I like your optimism, Michael.
But when the Chamber of Commerce can openly state that (in cahoots with the Republican Party leadership) it’s going to spend $50m to destroy the Tea Party in order to push for immigration “reform”, then I think the party is beyond all hope of fixing.
A strong secessionist movement would be a force Washington (both parties and bureaucrats)) simply couldn’t ignore.
Another option is a Constitutional Convention that declares a second republic based on the literal meaning of the U.S. Constitution – and outlaws the current regime in power at Washington, D.C.
However, whatever the patriots finally come up with to confront the federal government in the final showdown, the issue ends in a very bloody insurrection.
Speaking of insurrections in American history, the U.S. Civil War only ended after four bloody years because upwards of 70% of the fighting rebels in that conflict were dead or seriously wounded by 1865…and the main Confederate army of Robert E. Lee could only muster 30,000 effective soldiers against Grant’s federal army of over 160,000.
The American Civil War was the greatest and most tragic shedding of brother-to-brother English-speaking Anglo-Saxon blood in all history. Its origins lay in the anomalies embedded in the very Constitution that founded the country…and which remain there still.
Succession? No. Not without inviting another Shiloh or Antietam of very different styles and expressions.
Spelling –
Incorrect: succession
Correct: secession
a very big difference in spelling and meaning. Secession is total separation, a bloody mess, especially if the other side has plenty of ammo.
Mathew, the ‘War of Northern Aggression’ {as it’s known in the South} came about because the federal government decided to trample the sovereignty of the individual states, which were, by coincidence, in the South. The nuns taught me that Lincoln didn’t particularly want to free the slaves, he just wanted the South to “go-along, get-along” and do as he and others demanded.
As to your question, the prime reason for secession today is, again, about states’ sovereignty – Øbama & Co., are hell-bent on federalizing {ie., fascist socialism} every damn thing they can – which a LOT of us find ………………………………. irritating.
Living in Texas, one of the quirks here is that Texas, by it’s Constitution, can, any time it wants, 1) LEAVE the U. S., and/or 2) Divide itself into 5 individual states, with the concomitant increase in electoral college votes {SPIT!}, and representation in the House & Senate. With all the illegals and welfare cases in the cities, I’m gonna say we’d opt for an agrarian, rural state.
Oh, as a FWIW, KG & all, we MAY be moving back to Mexico – the FodGuy was asked Friday if he’d go, by one of the powers-that-be ………………………..
Semper Fi’
DM
Mexico doesn’t sound like a bad idea at all, DM. Have you been reading the “Fred on Everything” blog? He lives in Mexico.
http://fredoneverything.net/Sowell.shtml
Happy New Year to you both.