hmmmmmmm…..

Posted on January 5, 2012 by KG

Something I just read over at NZ Conservative:
‘Contraception should be outlawed.
The old, old reflex..don’t like it? Ban it!
It turns women into sexual playthings that can be discarded when something younger and prettier comes along.
Which remark shows contempt for men–most men are better than that. And plenty of women choose to use contraception because they regard sex as a recreational pursuit. Are they blameless?
It takes away women’s power to withhold sex unless the man says “I do”.
If the denial of sex is necessary to get a man to say “I do” then I suggest the marriage doesn’t have a hope in hell of surviving.
And it allows men to stay at a level of stunted development where they never have to grow up…’
Unlike women, of course who always approach relationships with maturity and intelligence…

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41 Responses to hmmmmmmm…..

  1. Darin says:
    January 5, 2012 at 11:41

    I see marriage as being 50/50.Men are responsible for half the stupidity and women are responsible for the other half of the stupidity that occurs in marriage.

    As I see it marriage also has a lot in common with the three laws of Thermodynamics-
    #1 There is no free lunch
    #2 You can’t win
    #3 You can’t quit playing the game. :grin:

  2. The Gantt Guy says:
    January 5, 2012 at 12:10

    What a pack of utter tosh. Insulting. Degrading. Puerile. Perhaps if the Catholics and their Moslem mirror would start talking sense about contraception, particularly in places like Africa, the place wouldn’t be an AIDS ridden shit hole. This comment once again shows Lucia Maria’s basic lack of understanding of biblical marriage. Husband and wife are given to each other to enjoy each other. How much fun would it be if every time they ‘lay’ together (to use the biblical parlance) pregnancy resulted? Her popes have a hellufalot to answer for.

  3. Kris K says:
    January 5, 2012 at 12:23

    And I didn’t need to guess too hard who the person was that made those comments.

    Some Catholics just don’t get it [and probably never will].
    They seem to put abortion and contraception in exactly the same category. I’ve got news for you [Lucia] – life begins at conception. There is no biblical mandate that states it is wrong to manage conception AHEAD OF TIME by such means as contraception.

    In my opinion the ONLY reason the Catholic church condemns contraception, especially when no bible-based church does, is to increase and ensure RC bums on seats. No doubt all sorts of counter arguments will be put up, but that’s my view on the matter, and I think there’s a very good case for it.

    And Lucia’s argument that contraception “turns women into sexual playthings” would be able to be extended to include all post-menopausal women who likewise cannot become pregnant. Or pre-pubescent girls [if the law allowed] for that matter.

    Also, Lucia, God created sex not only for procreation but for pleasure between a husband and wife. There’s no ‘off’ switch once a couple have had all the children they want; God leaves that desire well into old age. He has also left us with the ability, through science, to manage our fertility. I trust you would give your children medicine if they were to become sick? – or would you view this too as “meddling with God’s original intent”? [But only in the RC universe]

    And what KG [edit: & Gantt] said.

  4. The Gantt Guy says:
    January 5, 2012 at 12:29

    Obviously the Song of Solomon doesn’t feature I’m the Catholic teaching.

  5. ZenTiger says:
    January 5, 2012 at 13:01

    Kris K, you are inventing reasons for Lucia and then debating them.

    I understand that you love nothing more than to attack Lucia and the Catholic Church, but you can be a complete shit sometimes.

    As for the argument about contraception, read Pope John Paul’s “Theology of the Body” and then argue against the actual Catholic viewpoint, rather than your crazy theories.

    • Kris K says:
      January 5, 2012 at 13:28

      Zen, where have I invented anything for Lucia?
      And I don’t need to “attack Lucia and the Catholic Church” when both she and it set themselves up for a fall on a regular basis – they invite it on themselves with the comments and views they put out there.

      And regarding your pope – I put absolutely no stock in what ANY pope may think on ANY matter. Not least biblical marriage, contraception, etc – especially when the vatican/pope condemns marriage of its priests and nuns – yet another non-biblical Catholic ‘doctrine’.

      All I’ve done is expose more RC hypocrisy.

      • ZenTiger says:
        January 5, 2012 at 14:25

        In my opinion the ONLY reason …

        Yes, just your opinion, and it happens to be wrong. It appears you don’t even know what the argument is, and yet you still dismiss it out of hand. So you cannot claim to expose hypocrisy from a position of ignorance.

        And rhetorical questions such as this explain what I mean:

        I trust you would give your children medicine if they were to become sick? – or would you view this too as “meddling with God’s original intent”? [But only in the RC universe]

        You no doubt feel righteous slinging arrows, but that doesn’t excuse your disrespect.

        • Kris K says:
          January 5, 2012 at 16:12

          Give me a break, Zen.

          And was that your opinion that my opinion was wrong? :roll:

          Respect has to be earned. When people come out with non-biblical tripe like Lucia does on a regular basis then it is my duty, as a Bible-beliving Christian, to call her on it.

          I have absolutely no respect for people who push non-biblical dogma and/or bow before so called religious authorities who in times past have tortured and burnt alive hundreds of thousands of Bible-believing Christians simply for their rejecting its authority and false teachings.

          I can keep going if you like …

          • ZenTiger says:
            January 5, 2012 at 18:52

            And was that your opinion that my opinion was wrong?

            Having actually read the material, I had good cause.

            When people come out with non-biblical tripe like Lucia does on a regular basis then it is my duty, as a Bible-beliving Christian, to call her on it.

            She did not use the bible to support her statements, as you seem to be implying, but that was beside the point.

            I’m sure you can find a passage in the Bible to support you being rude and being loose with your generalisations, but that doesn’t make it right.

            As for your take on history, that is a very big topic for another day.

            • Kris K says:
              January 7, 2012 at 08:01

              “She did not use the bible to support her statements …”

              She sure didn’t, Zen – she used her RC rose tinted glasses and her RC dogma infected world-view. I countered it with stating there life begins at conception AND THEREFORE managing conception AHEAD OF TIME by the use of contraception does not conflict with the word of God [a MUCH greater authority than the cult of Roman Catholicism].

              You really do have to show you RCs how to suck eggs, don’t you.

              And regarding your comment one up:
              The parallel between [the RC and Lucia’s view] not using contraceptives because it [somehow] interferes with “God’s natural order” and the [non] use of medicine to prevent or cure illness is logically consistent – both usually alter the outcome if applied.

              More egg sucking lessons.

  6. Darin says:
    January 5, 2012 at 13:05

    The Bible I read is pretty clear about what Marriage is supposed to be,namely between a man and a woman and monogamous.Says nothing about contraceptives,just don’t go looking for strange.

    The old Abortion argument used to revolve around “the poor girl who got in trouble or had an accident” pregnancy isn’t like breaking curfew and it doesn’t happen by tripping over the cat.Abortion exists because young men and women refuse to grow up.

  7. ZenTiger says:
    January 5, 2012 at 13:06

    Perhaps if the Catholics and their Moslem mirror would start talking sense about contraception, particularly in places like Africa, the place wouldn’t be an AIDS ridden shit hole.

    It’s not pick and choose. Africa is an AIDS ridden shit hole because people engage in sex before marriage, engage in sex with others whilst in marriage, and once infected don’t give a shit about who they infect, and even then condoms don’t provide 100% protection. The Catholic teaching therefore, which only Catholics *might* pay heed too, are ignored in total by 84% of the population, and I dare say probably half of the Catholics. However, if all three of those precepts were adopted in full (rather than picking and choosing) there might be a different result. In any event, you can’t blame Catholic teaching when most Africans aren’t Catholic, and most people only pay attention to what Catholics say when they wish to complain about it.

    • ZenTiger says:
      January 5, 2012 at 13:27

      Actually, I’m probably too optimistic on the numbers of self-identifying Catholics that actually listen to the Holy See. It’s not half, probably more like 10%.

  8. The Gantt Guy says:
    January 5, 2012 at 15:06

    Looks like the I’m-right-and-you’re-wrong fingers-in-the-ears Nyah-nyah-nyah-can’t-hear-you argument once again from our papist friends.

    :roll:

    • ZenTiger says:
      January 5, 2012 at 15:13

      You advanced the theory that Catholic teaching has contributed to the problem. I countered with a reasonable argument. You make a derogatory comment. It’s not me sticking my fingers in my ears.

      • The Gantt Guy says:
        January 5, 2012 at 15:20

        Even if your response to me was reasonable, it remains wrong. And your response to Kris was to stick your fingers in your ears.

        Yes, there are many in Africa with the sexual morals of an alley cat and a good dose of Christian teaching would do them the world of good.

        That said, plenty of them still follow either your pope or the 7th century pedophile prophet, both of whom preach(ed) against contraception, and they use this as their excuse for not using.

        As Kris said, life begins at conception. There is no biblical reason for not allowing contraception. Unless you’re suggesting the rhythm method is also a sin?

        • ZenTiger says:
          January 5, 2012 at 15:41

          I was not arguing with Kris K on the actual topic. I was addressing his disrespect towards Lucia and pointing out he wasn’t arguing from any kind of fact.

          Conflating the teachings of the Catholic Church with Islam is beyond a stretch. It appears you do not understand the Catholic arguments against contraception either, which I repeat, is part of a package deal.

          As Kris said, life begins at conception.

          So what? Neither Lucia nor myself have never argued life does not begin at conception.

          There is no biblical reason for not allowing contraception.

          Well, there are. But at the least, we could agree to disagree on interpretation. It’s slightly beside the point.

          Unless you’re suggesting the rhythm method is also a sin?

          Natural Family Planning methods (of which there are several) are endorsed by the Catholic Church, so again, neither Lucia nor myself are saying anything different.

          Yes, there are many in Africa with the sexual morals of an alley cat and a good dose of Christian teaching would do them the world of good.

          That said, plenty of them still follow either your pope…

          There are around 160 million self-identifying Catholics in Africa out of a total population of more than 1 Billion. Of that number, unfortunately, many do not follow the Catholic Churches recommendations on sexual morality. Some South African countries that have very high Catholic populations though also point to better outcomes with regard to containing AIDS. Again, your argument for blaming the Catholic Church’s teachings on contraception (and simultaneously ignoring the “no sex outside of marriage, no adultery) on the AIDS epidemic remains weak, unless you can offer up a study I’m unaware of?

        • Andrei says:
          January 5, 2012 at 16:01

          “There is no biblical reason for not allowing contraception. ”

          Really?

          Genesis 38:8-10

          8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother’s wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.

          9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother’s wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.

          10 And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.

          • Kris K says:
            January 5, 2012 at 16:31

            Good grief, Andrei – that has absolutley NOTHING to do with contraception, and everything to do with Onan refusing to raise up seed [children] in his brother’s stead and thereby displeasinging God.

            Once again, just another example of how Catholics will twist [or totally misconstrue] scripture in an attempt to justify Roman Catholic dogma.

            Try reading the scriptures for yourself allowing the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth of God’s word, rather than just blindly following so called RC scholars, popes, and extra-biblical uninspired writings.

            • Andrei says:
              January 5, 2012 at 16:37

              I’m not a Catholic Kris.

              The Good Lord told us to be fruitful and multiply – to replenish the earth.

              Not everybody is called upon to do this, of course, we are told that too if you read the scriptures.

              We live in a time where children are not seen as a blessing – that makes me sad

              • Kris K says:
                January 5, 2012 at 16:56

                Well apologies on that count, Andrei.
                The fact that you hang out at NZC and I have never seen you pull Lucia [or others] up on RC dogma led me to believe otherwise.

                We can still have children while taking a responsible approach to our fertility. The days when couples had 10 or more children [did anyone apart from Catholics?], either by choice or from an affordability perspective, are long gone. But this doesn’t somehow imply people are therefore disobeying God for goodness sake.

                And by the way, the whole “replenish the earth” thing was ONLY given to Adam and Eve, and then again to Noah and his sons following the flood. This command is not repeated again after this. There’s not much chance of humanity dieing out now I would suggest.

            • Andrei says:
              January 5, 2012 at 17:20

              We can still have children while taking a responsible approach to our fertility.

              Who defines “responsible” Kris?

              Helen Clark?

              I had four, was that irresponsible?

              If we could have we would have had more – would that have been irresponsible?

              • Kris K says:
                January 5, 2012 at 17:58

                I guess that’s between you, your wife, and God, Andrei …

                Sheesh – talk about reading into something something that isn’t even there. :roll:

  9. Kris K says:
    January 5, 2012 at 16:40

    I don’t know about you, Gantt, but I am increasingly coming to the conclusion that it is IMPOSSIBLE to have any meaningful discussion/debate with Catholics on what the Bible actually teaches [or doesn’t teach for that matter].

    They are so one-eyed and blinded by those who tell them what to think [the RC hierarchy] that they might as well have BOTH eyes closed:

    Mat 15:13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
    Mat 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

    • The Gantt Guy says:
      January 5, 2012 at 16:50

      Yup. The tendency to draw a long bow past breaking point amazes me. The total lack of logical or independent thought surprises me. Hence my (slightly impolite) “I’m-right-and-you’re-wrong fingers-in-the-ears Nyah-nyah-nyah-can’t-hear-you” jibe.

      • ZenTiger says:
        January 5, 2012 at 17:49

        So you think everything I’ve said on this thread illogical? You think I’ve ignored the points you made? Are you able to provide a concrete example on this thread?

    • ZenTiger says:
      January 5, 2012 at 17:45

      I don’t know about you, Gantt, but I am increasingly coming to the conclusion that it is IMPOSSIBLE to have any meaningful discussion/debate with Catholics on what the Bible actually teaches [or doesn’t teach for that matter].

      I wasn’t having a discussion with you about what the Bible teaches. And you can’t be so myopic not to realise this.

      You have misrepresented (apparently from a position of ignorance) what the Catholic teachings are to do with contraception. You then went on to claim that “life begins at conception” as if either myself or Lucia would disagree with that point.

      Your posts are littered with generalisations on “all Catholics are bad” and point to such inherent bias, it is typical that you think I’m not the one listening. I have no problems having meaningful discussions with others of faith, so the problem may not be as one-sided as you suggest.

  10. oswald bastable says:
    January 5, 2012 at 18:00

    “And it allows men to stay at a level of stunted development where they never have to grow up…’”

    Contraception.
    I’m glad of it. We stopped short when our first turned out to be severely intellectually disabled. Couldn’t have more kids and look after him properly…

    • The Gantt Guy says:
      January 5, 2012 at 18:36

      I’m equally glad, Os. Mrs Gantt became severely suicidally depressed when the post-natal hit. It was touch-and-go for a long time (she’s only just coming out of it properly now – >5 years later) and the ability to plan to not go through that experience again is a GOD-send!

  11. KG says:
    January 5, 2012 at 18:40

    Thanks, Os. That brings us back on track.

  12. kowtow says:
    January 6, 2012 at 07:35

    Historically “papists” have been the bulwark against the encroaching Muslim hordes. They are also perhaps the prime victims and targets of the Islamists in the Arab world at the moment.I’d be a little more careful in my use of language against potential allies in the real struggle and not get too caught up in the nitty gritty of theological interpretations. United we stand and all that.

    • KG says:
      January 6, 2012 at 07:43

      Exactly.
      There’s a wide range of views on the subject, a huge range of circumstances to apply those views to and I don’t believe anybody, regardless of their religion – or lack of it – has a credible claim to being “right” in any all-encompassing sense.

  13. Kris K says:
    January 7, 2012 at 12:16

    “The old, old reflex..don’t like it? Ban it!”

    KG, these Catholics are obviously BIG on the whole “ban it” philosophy.

    Zen over at Red’s has just suggested I be banned because I’m not “nice” :roll:

    To Zen Tiger, and On Engaging With Rabid Secular Progressives

    Cry me a river.